[mod_python] Promoting Python as web application development language

vio vmilitaru at sympatico.ca
Sat Aug 24 05:36:26 EST 2002

Hi Jorgen,
Thanks for your feedback and info on the interesting Rivet history.

Please note that I am speaking entirely from a user's perspective, and my 
little initiative was entirely triggered by Fabian's on the mod_python list, 
which has such a great and obvious point: one way or the other, 
apache misses a 'python play', alongside perl and tcl and such. 
I don't want to offend any egoes, but as a user, I don't really care whether 
apache's python play embraces mod_python or zope, or some other I don't know
about. I'm just a web app coder.

I do disagree with your point that if python.apache.org == mod_python, 
it may split the Python web community. For a simple but obvious reason:
the community is already split as it stands right now. For example, I don't 
see any cooperation whatsoever between the mod_python users and the zope people
(being an old zope user myself who switched to mod_python). From my perspective
python.apache.org == mod_python looks like a ralying point (an analogy which 
comes to mind as I write this being Bill Gate's Pearl Harbor Day speech, which
managed to totally shifted MS on its head, towards the Internet). A ralying
point is hugely powerful.

If I read your Rivet analogy correctly, apache might be interested in giving 
its 'official' blessing (i.e. the powerful 'python.apache.org') to the python 
project who will manage to rally support from the web-python community at 
large. In this regard, Fabian's latest PR makes a lot of sense. 

But again speaking from a user's perspective, if I consider the 2 web-python
packages I know a little about - zope and mod_python - I don't see those code 
bases integrating anytime soon (simply because they serve 2 quite different 
audiences, and I would think they are rather entrenched). Because of this, 
should there be no 'python.apache.org' ?

I disagree. As long as there will be no official ralying point to attract
python+apache afficionados on a 'single point of effort', parallel efforts 
will continue to florish, each more or less re-inventing the proverbial 
wheel. And not cooperating very much, I would think.

In conclusion, whatever the politics behind this topic, apache needs a python
play. I believe this is Fabian's main point, and I am totally sold on it.
But from a web app coder's perspective, give me a great tool to program 
apache in python, and I'll embrace it, whatever it's called. 
It just happened that, though I may be wrong, for the time being the best tool 
available is mod_python.


* J?rgen Fr?jk Kj?rsgaard {Metation} <jfk at metation.com> [020824 04:29]:
> Lørdag 24. August 2002 01:22 skrev du:
> > Yet, there is such a symbiotic relationship between
> > apache and mod_python, what would it take to have a link on the main apache
> > side to the 'python' web-app alternative, in the Apache Projects section of
> > the
> >
> >    Apache Projects
> >      HTTP Server
> >      APR
> >      Jakarta
> >      Perl
> >      Python    <-- something like this, linking to www.mod_python.org,
> >      PHP           or to 'python.apache.org' which would redirect to
> >      TCL           www.mod_python.org (or something along those lines)
> >      XML
> >      Conferences
> >      Foundation
> As Fabian Fagerholm wrote aug 22nd, I believe python.apache.org shouldn't 
> equal mod_python. Although mod_python is a great product, it isn't the only 
> way to use Python with Apache.
> The community around mod_dtcl took the initial initiative to move to 
> tcl.apache.org and invited the other Tcl alternatives to join in. This has 
> now resulted in a new module, Apache Rivet, which combines the efforts of 
> mod_dtcl and neowebscript.
> If a similar symbiosis can be archived in the Python web community, I believe 
> it we benefit all of us. On the other hand, if python.apache.org == 
> mod_python, it may split the Python web community.
> /jfk
> -- 
> Jørgen Frøjk Kjærsgaard, direktør og systemkonsulent
> Metation aps - Kystvejen 29, DK-8000 Århus C
> Web: www.metation.com  - Tlf: +45 8625 0038 - Mobil: +45 2925 6693
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