[mod_python] supporting modular mod_python extensions vs."folding" mod_psp

Sterling Hughes sterling at bumblebury.com
Mon Jun 9 10:58:36 EST 2003

On Mon, 2003-06-09 at 07:05, Geert Jansen wrote:
> > PSP is a python handler, distributed with mod_python.  There 
> > is a clear boundary between the two pieces of code.  I can 
> > see your political reasoning for not including PSP, but what 
> > is your technical reason?  The other systems will not be 
> > technically disadvantaged in anyway, and psp 
> > certainly doesn't muddy things up from a technical perspective.
> The fact that mod_psp hasn't proved anything yet while other frameworks
> have seems a technical reason to me.

That's a reason against bundling?  I can see that's a reason against
bundling PSP, but Rimon is talking about the chastity of mod_python

And btw, that's an advantage from a bundling perpsective - It doesn't
need to support legacy userbases, so the code itself is very malleable,
as witnessed by some of grisha's recent changes.

> What do you (as the mod_psp author) think of the remarks that have been
> made already by two people that a complete web application framework is
> much larger in scope than mod_python. This would mean that adding it to
> mod_python is like adding mod_python to the framework. At that time can
> only hope that the focus of mod_python doesn't shift from being a
> general and high performance Python layer for Apache to being the Apache
> enablement of mod_psp.

I don't think that focus will switch.

For one thing, Rimon didn't have a problem with the "purity" of
mod_python when he proposed that spyce be integrated, it was only after
that fell through in private mail that he refocused the issue, and
brought it to the mailing lists.

PSP is a very small, very fast alternative, it doesn't preclude you from
using any of the listed solutions.  In fact you can use PSP in
conjunction with any of the solutions listed, or you can even ignore its
existence altogether and use something else, or code directly with
req.write().  There is *zero* performance loss if you choose to use
another option, like spyce.

As for the shift of development focus.  I'm touched Rimon cares so much
about how developers spend their time.  I guess only experience will
tell, but generally I think the people who develop mod_python are
capable of deciding what they want to spend their time on, and what
requires attention at the moment.  We don't need to be put in a crib so
that we don't chew on the electric cords.

If you want to re-invent the wheel, go for it!  Including Python with a
Linux distribution doesn't stop you from using PHP.  PSP is a common
feature request, and it lives as a standard module for the 99% of users
who just want a solution that works, and don't care how efficient '[['
is to type.  That doesn't mean alternatives aren't allowed and
encouraged, they just aren't bundled.


"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder,  
 but when you do, it blows away your whole leg." 
    - Bjarne Stroustrup

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