[mod_python] Promoting Python as web application developmentlanguage

Michael C. Neel neel at mediapulse.com
Tue Aug 27 15:57:10 EST 2002

Just chipping in my thoughts here, mostly on the copyright issues.

As mod_python stands now (and as I understand it), it is solely under
the copyright of Gregory Trubetskoy
So unless Gregory has reasons to not do so, moving mod_python to an ASF
license shouldn't be much of an issue.  I'd also say that as a developer
I almost need to see mod_python placed under a "standard" open source
license like ASF, GNU, or Artistic (or even python's own PSF).  This
will give me the assurance that I won't find out one day that all the
mod_python releases are commercial and closed source.  I have been
burned in the past by this table cloth switching, and it wasn't fun.

The other thing I'd like to say is that python.apache.org should just be
mod_python.  It servers the same purpose as mod_perl, to allow apache
development in python.  Catering the section to template modules,
application servers, or others projects just dilutes what a developer is
looking for.  I do think a "sister sites" link area is a good idea, as
well as some kind of mod_python CPAN.

The community does need this, badly.  Python itself needs this.  I
recently did 20 interviews for the position of internet developer, and
not one person knew of python when I asked.  I figure there are two
reasons for this: python sucks, or it doesn't have enough exposure.
I've written code in python before, so I know it can't be number one...

Michael C. Neel
There are only 10 types of people in the world;
those who understand binary and those who don't.

-----Original Message-----
From: Fabian Fagerholm [mailto:fabbe at paniq.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 10:41 AM
To: vio
Cc: mod_python at modpython.org; Greg Stein; Ken.Coar at Golux.Com;
davidw at dedasys.com; grisha at modpython.org
Subject: Re: [mod_python] Promoting Python as web application

As the initiator of the original discussion, I'd like to jump in with a
little comment right now before this heads off in a random direction.

I've been discussing these matters with David Welton of the Apache Tcl
Project (who has kindly agreed to assist me in this effort) and it seems
the mod_python community is lacking some vital understanding of exactly
what the Apache Software Foundation is.

Please read carefully:

> * Greg Stein <gstein at lyra.org> [020827 03:54]:
> > To become an ASF project, the owners/committers of the code would
need to
> > agree to donate the codebase to the ASF and be willing to maintain
it within
> > our framework (along with other ASF committers and members who are
> > interested). Ideally, the community that comes with it would also
> > some of the philosophy of the ASF in terms of being a friendly
> > open source code, etc.

The mod_python software is written by Gregory Trubetskoy and a number of
contributors [0]. It already has a working infrastructure with a web
site, cvs (via sourceforge), and a mailing list.

ASF projects seem to have the general requirement that the copyright of
the software is to be assigned to the ASF.

This is not a decision that can be made by consensus on this mailing
list. It is the decision of the current copyright owner(s).

Gregory Trubetskoy has already expressed that he doesn't view the lack
of python.apache.org to be a problem [1] and that he doesn't have time
to spend on this effort [2] at the moment.

In order for anything to happen, Gregory must either be interested in
making mod_python an ASF project, or the mod_python community must come
up with an alternative arrangement with the ASF (such as a "Sister
Projects" link or whatever the ASF prefers).

In the former case, I'm sure communication can proceed directly between
Gregory and the ASF now that a contact has been established. I'll be
happy to share all information that I have gathered so far.

I invite everyone to continue this discussion with these facts in mind.
I also invite anyone to endorse the Python Special Interest Group
Proposal [3] that was sent to the Python Meta-SIG mailing list.

Fabian Fagerholm

[0] http://www.modpython.org/live/mod_python-2.7.8/CREDITS



[3] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/meta-sig/2002-August/001233.html

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