barr at cs.cornell.edu
Sun Jun 8 16:18:07 EST 2003
Dear Jack, >Holy Cross Posting Batman! >I'm just replying to the proper forum (python-dev at apache) I feel that this topic involves more than the just the mod_python development list. It involves also the developers that use mod_python to create Python frameworks based on mod_python, and also the users of those systems. I selected only a few frameworks that I have posted to before, and that I know are rather mature projects. You are free to address your replies as you please. >No need to freak out. Per the original discussions of psp it will be >seperate enough so you can use the psp stuff in a regular CGI or even >to generate text offline altogether. Then why the integration? It seems like it should operate just like WebWare, Zope, Spyce and the rest: as one possible framework that you could place on top of the mod_python base. Futhermore, my concern is not with the generality of mod_psp, but rather with the generality of mod_python. >This would lend it to being generic enough that the same hooks it uses >could be used by any other templating engine. IMO the reason psp was >folded into mod_python and not something else is just that the guy who >did psp was willing to put in some time and many people (mostly noobs) >expect a php-alike with thier mod_whatever. Installing two rpms instead of one is not a big deal, and is not a valid reason to combine the development. PHP and Pear are seperate installs, for example. Furthermore, Spyce and many other systems work perfectly against the exposed mod_python API. Therefore, all the "integration work" that you speak of has been done by others as well. Unless, of course, there is some unexposed mod_python functionality that mod_psp is using... There is no performance disadvantage from this modular approach. In fact, it is this modular approach that has made Apache popular, that has lead to the success of Python, Perl, PHP and many other systems. People like to plug in components. But, for that you need a component infrastructure, and you need to resist the urge to tack on quick fixes or integrate with this or that project to get another neat feature. Rather, you want to create an open platform that allows others to easily create their own extensions. >So it solved a couple minor problems without adding any new ones. No >big deal or conspiracy here. The concern is not about conspiracy, but on the effect of the inclusion. The inclusion of mod_psp, excludes other frameworks, because it becomes the defacto standard through an arbitrary linkage to mod_python rather than through its independent merits. It thereby stifles the progress and interest in other solutions unnecessarily. All the best, Rimon.